The Forum - Discussion Board

[pompeyjazz]

Hi All, It's John Pompeyjazz here. It's such a shame that our forum has been out of action for a while. This is not a new forum, I've spent a bit of time looking at this forum alternative software that I've got for free at the moment and wanted to start a conversation about what we do to have some sort of shared experience.

Personally, I don't really want to get into running a forum although I'm very happy to help out as moderator or similar. I'm thinking of doing some research as part of my Uni course into the area of forums for musicians so will be able to justify some time into the subject though.

This is completely open - Say what you think, no holds barred and lets see what we come up with

Take care all

John

[NickRyder]

Nice one, John.

I’ll check back n properly tomorrow.

[adamfarr]

Afternoon all. Thanks for doing this!

[Michael A]

Great to see a proactive bit of action, well done John.

If it is problematic, I’m  not sure why Boydie is bothering to migrate the whole archive site over. I don’t think many folk look at posts older than a few weeks.

I’d be happy to join in on something new, from time to time. I think the old forum has got too much baggage now to flourish again.

I’d be happy to contribute to a small forum if the old one can’t be resuscitated!

[pompeyjazz]

Ah ! Good to see that this seems to be working and look forward to your thoughts and suggestions

[PaulAds]

Hello

I've invited Boydie to pop over and share his thoughts...and a few other folks too.

I really hope we can get back on track and, hopefully, better than ever.

Looking forward to hearing all opinions

Paul

[Rightly]

just saying hi

Well done for putting up this provisional forum John

I've some new things going on musically
I might want to ask advice at some point.
not now. Too tired

later

[monnodb]

Hi there John et al!

Thanks for setting this up - I actually did the same myself just to see what's possible but haven't brought it further.

Ideal I think would be for Boydie to get the old site back up and running, with or without the archive. As with a few of you, I'd be happy to mod on that or another site but don't really have the time to actually set up and run one. Having said that, I'm open to helping out / being active on a forum.

I do miss the chat! And listening to the new music on the forum so I'm all for supporting the resurrection.

Boydie - I've heard you've had a nightmare with the migration. Don't envy you that..

Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for the chats.

Night everyone!

K

[5GuysNamedLars]

Hello everybody. Good to see we're all still alive.. Great initiative John and will try and contribute when I can. My first question to the forum is to ask , how can I get my finger out of my arse and start writing again ? .Sending lots of love to you all from over the sea. Xx

[NickRyder]

Morning, all.

I've been speaking to Boydie these last few weeks and I know its been frustrating for him.

From my point of view, if the forum was restored to 2018 as a point in time, then it doesn't bother me. Even if it were to start again, that would be fine too.

It would keep the same URL so the same people could and would re-join. In some ways it might be nice to start again.

The forum is more about the people for me.

[PaulAds]

Hello

Nice to see a few familiar faces.

I don't know if it'd be a bad thing to have a clean slate anyway.

It's probably not the ideal scenario...but, as Michael says, most stuff drops of the first page of "finished songs" and effectively disappears into the ether anyway.

Having an archive going backwards from 2018 but missing the last 6 years isn't worth bothering with, to my mind.

If it could be parked as an archive somewhere, that'd possibly be mildly interesting to delve into once in a blue moon, but it'd presumably cost money just for the storage space and there'd be very little benefit that I can see.

Certainly, the address is definitely worth keeping...although I've always had difficulty trying to bring the forum up from a search engine, for some reason.

Beyond that, I'd probably like to see a brand new site, without the baggage of the previous forum.

There are ways where people could perhaps give a resume of previous exploits on a new profile page, for example...we could even gradually post a handful of our all-time top 3 songs for new feedback from each other, which would be a bit of a pleasant trip down memory lane and an indication of what has been achieved by members over the years.

Another potential benefit of a fresh start is that it creates a bit more of a level playing field...where newer members who want to participate fully can feel less like outsiders.

My hope would be that Boydie could set up a new, redesigned SW Forum, perhaps a little more streamlined...and, with a few new suggestions from the good folks here, hopefully a fresh outlook.

I have a few other suggestions which can be thrown in once we get the ball rolling.

The main thing, initially, I guess, is to find out what Boydie is hoping to do...

Once we know that, we can get cracking with ideas.

I wouldn't really want the forum resurrected as it was, because it was really dying on its arse, as we'd say up north.

So, despite all the trials and tribulations, it's really a great opportunity...and it may yet turn out to be the only time that anyone ever actually managed to carry out the threat to "build back better"

[pompeyjazz]

The more I think about it, the idea of a clean slate seems more appealing. It’s an opportunity to introduce some new ideas and creates a fresh impetus. I’d also like to see a team of 3 or 4 moderators made up of guys who have already provided feedback. I would also like to hear what Boydie thinks though

[NickRyder]

This all sounds very positive.

I can't wait to get it back up so I can tell you all about a really weird, funny and sad story!!

[Boydie]

Hi all

Just wanted to jump on say hello!

I won't bore you all with the saga about the state of the songwriterforum - only to say that a lot of work has gone on behind the scenes (mainly by TONE) to get the forum migrated to a new platform

This highlighted a number of issues and despite me taking a full backup of the forum on the day it went down - it looks like the data is from 2018. I have raised this as an issue with the hosting company - but they have been sooooooooooooo bad, I am not holding out much hope

So it appears the options with the current songwriterforum are to either restore to a point in 2018 or potentially start afresh

Whatever option is chosen - I am very open to taking a more collaborative approach to the forum and would "donate" the domain name, logos etc. if we wanted to build something

My only words of caution would be...

I have seen smaller "splinter forums" develop, which either die out due to not having enough people - or encounter exactly the same issues as the songwriterforum did from time to time

It is also very easy to run the forum when it is going well - but when things like changing platform are required, or something goes wrong with database files etc. - it can be extremely stressy and time consuming to fix - not to mention the desire for new features etc. - this all takes a lot of "energy"

Frustratingly, this has all come at a time when I was personally getting set to reinvigorate my songwriting and production work - so I do truly feel all of your pain and I am personally devastated by what has happened to the songwriterforum

I will happily participate in these discussions and hopefully we can come up with a plan

Also, thank you for setting this up John so that we can have these discussions - I have missed you all!!!!

[adamfarr]

Hey all. Sorry to hear about all the technical woes. Totally happy to participate and start again from zero.

I guess the question I have is whether we can create something that's not already covered by other forums. I have to admit to having been hanging around musesongwriters and they do a lot of things well. It's a different vibe but well frequented and I've found it useful. So there wouldn't be much point in creating a clone. I think the Songwriters in the Kitchen ended up on Discord, which is a different animal again.

Anyhow, I am reasonably productive these days so would participate more. Very happy to see and discuss with you all here!

[Davy Vance aka Skub]

This is completely open - Say what you think, no holds barred and lets see what we come up with  

Since I can say what I think,can I just start with Pomps is a wanker?

I know I haven't posted much on the forum the past while,since I appear to be suffering from a broken mojo,but I often looked in and I miss some aspects,now that it's busted. Lots of good people on there,as well as John.

I don't have any objection,or even a right to an objection concerning a fresh start,especially if the IT millstone has become burdensome for Boydie and Tone. It would mean I could post up my old schitt again and pretend it's freshly baked.

Adam mentioned the Kitchen going to Discord,man if ever there was an apt name for that software. I used to use another platform on there (I forget the name) but it was a nightmare to navigate,totally unintuitive. I ran away screaming in the end,but it fell apart anyway. Did I mention I hate Discord?

Considering the core membership would be the same in the brave new forum,what can we realistically expect to be different? What could forum members do to change anything and what exactly needs to be changed? We all experience the ebb and flow of songwriting,the peaks and the troughs where we lose impetus and interest. That's pretty much a constant for us all,aside from Pomps,who alongside his prowess as a wanker,is a veritable unending song machine.

Maybe I'm sounding a little negative,but I don't mean to be. I know,as a member I am part of the problem.

Anyway,lots of hugs and kisses to John for creating this little portal.

[pompeyjazz]

Thank you everyone for you contributions (Except you Skub ) Really, the language on here !!

Boydie - I'm just a bit unclear by what you mean when you say "donate" the domain name, logos etc. if we wanted to build something"

I think the consensus is (And please swear at me if I'm wrong) That it would be great to get the existing forum running again and if data has been lost then it's no big deal - A version of the existing forum with no posts would perhaps be even better.

Cheers all

John

[CCB]

Hello all,

I hope you're all doing well. I'm not sure I'd participate in a renewed forum for the same reason I left the old one, but I do like knowing it's there (like a library) and would regularly pop in to 'shadow' see what you guys and girls were up to.
I think forums are innately a dying breed - communities tend to dwindle rather than grow. It would be a shame for this one to fall apart so I hope Boydie and Tone get it back.

In terms of suggestions for a new version... it's difficult with such a small community. When I posted I felt limited by the 'only post 1 a week' guideline but then it made sense as there weren't that many people and 1 or 2 regular posters could write 3/4 songs a week whereas others post once a month and would be 'washed away' so I understand the reason.

I found everyone welcoming so it's a shame more newbies didn't join more regularly. When you think how many people there are out there with DAWS looking for feedback it slightly perplexes me there's not more members across the limited number of forums. That said - part of the charm of this forum was it's close-knit ragtag family feel.

In short - no ideas!

I'll leave you with this:

How do dolphins know when they're romantically inclined?

They just click!

Much love

CCB

[PaulAds]

I think we need someone with a vision of what they really want.

I don't have that vision and I don't know what I want out of it.

I don't know what anyone else wants either.

I'd be happy enough with a much smaller, more sociable forum. Maybe the odd song from me, a zoom call from time to time...the odd challenge here and there.

I enjoy listening to what everyone produces and so i am happy doing reviews.

As Joe Jackson said

"You can't get what you want 'til you know what you want"

Maybe that's partly our problem?

I never wanted it to be like a little club for the chosen few...but I have come to think there are only maybe 20 members or so left who fully embrace the idea. And the ones who didn't stick around long enough to become part of it probably see it as being that club anyway.

I don't envy anyone trying to figure this out.

[Michael A]

Looking at the above, a few points seem to stand out.

1. Forums are generally dying out. I’d add that those still going are used by older people. That’s why the old forum - and say breakaway forum the Kitchen - was mainly populated by people over 40.

It’s probably like the members of a Crown Green Bowling club saying they need to do more to attract new blood. The fundamental concept of participating in such a pursuit is big no no for the young ‘uns.

2. But that is OK if people are happy to still join in knowing that’s true. Being an oldie myself, I don’t mind at all. But any forum going forward would have to make an effort to recruit new most likely older members. It would be great if the demographic spread, and there are one or two fab young folk that come on from time to time. These should be made very welcome, but they aren’t going to stay for long.

3. There seems to be a bit of interest in a splinter forum starting up, but as of yet nobody has stepped forward to want to be the leader of this. To his credit, recognising that maybe any forum going forwards needs to be run in a more collaborative way, Boydie has offered to give up the domain name and just join in as an active contributor. That is a very selfless offer, well done that man!

But still, nobody is biting his hand off. I would have done about four or five years ago, but a combination of feeling a bit over the hill and my more successful novel writing has meant I’m a less active songwriter these days.

But here’s a chance for a new leader to step forward if they want.

4. There’s less storage space needed on a server if it’s not migrated with its full history. I can’t see anyone here that bothered about saving the archive if the alternative is no forum.

5. Boydie might decide to restart the old forum from afresh, if we ask him nicely, with no archive. But it’s likely to be small, so we probably each need to do more to keep it going if the idea that it could cease to exist upsets us.

6. I most enjoyed forum life during COVID when more folk joined in and there was more going on. But even then it was a small community. But that community brightened up my life, for sure. I’m hoping it will do again. A small group of people putting a bit of effort in is all it would probably take.

Cheers, if you got to the end of that ramble!

[NickRyder]

As a relatively new member of the forum, I do not have the history that most of you have with each other, so am probably not qualified to have much of a say.

However, in my short time (about a year) there, I have made new friends, collaborated, learnt things and been able to measure where I am as a writer.

All of this is positive and would not have happened if the forum had not existed.

I think it should definitely continue (with or without the posts pre 2018), as there may be people out there looking for something like this forum who would miss out otherwise.

[monnodb]

Hey guys..

I think the vision for me is simple - a place where we can come to share music and get feedback / advice and do the same for others. And I guess a place to have some social chat centred around (but of course not limited to) music.

I get that this is not unique but it works for me and I miss having it. I, like Adam, have looked at Muse but I'm not sure I want to go start again somewhere else. I liked the intimacy of the forum - but I do admit I liked it most when there was more movement on it. I can't imagine having SOTM (for example) with the volume of traffic we had in recent months. But I would be happy with reestablishing a site regardless - we can talk then about how we would grow it if that was our collective drive.

Nick - you are as qualified as anyone else. I haven't been around as long as many of the others in this thread either.

I'm not sure we can move forward with this discussion without understanding you have in mind, Boydie. If you're more of a mind to cede control and donate the logo/domain etc - what do you mean by that and is that what you really want? We can all row in behind that or if you've really had enough, we can build on this (or other similar) set up. I think we need to start talking specifics. I could well understand if you want to go either way. But I would ask you to lay out what you're thinking. Or say even that you need time to think it through. It's been a part of your musical life for some time now so I get that you might need to figure it out.

Anyway - good to have the opinions flowing.

Karen

[adamfarr]

Morning. So, thinking about this I think the preferred course would probably be to revive the forum (previous posts all gone). What I would say is that it could be highly simplified. For me all we really would need is 1) songs for review, 2) lyrics for review, 3) music/writing/production chat, 4) the bar/off topic, and perhaps then maybe also 5) showcase for complete works not wanting feedback. If it really gets going then more areas could be opened up (contests etc.). That's it, my 5c. Let's keep discussing!

[pompeyjazz]

I think that seems to be the general consensus Adam - We'll wait and see how Boydie is getting on. Thanks all for your comments

[Boydie]

Hi All

Just wanted to jump in and say that this has been a REALLY useful discussion - and as there is a clear consensus to get the old forum back up and running, I will focus on that

I didn't want to ask TONE to do all of that work if there was a "splinter group" forming that wanted to set up their own forum - and if that were the case, I would have supported this and helped out, donated the domain etc. - but there is clearly a will to get up and running again - SO LET'S DO IT!!!

I am in favour of restoring from 2018, rather than starting from scratch, as it will give me access to some of the old membership data to do a "re-recruitment" drive to try and tempt some of the old faces back

It will mean that people will need to re-join if they joined after 2018 - so I will try to find a way to make an obvious announcement on the forum when it is back

I will also be seeking to form a bit of a board/steering group to help with the running of the forum and implement some of the ideas being discussed

Not long now

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